Saturday, February 17, 2007

Old Souls and the Evolutionary Ladder

“I’m an old soul.” This is almost always said with a certain amount of pride and arrogance, as if the listener should be awed, and the speaker should be worshipped. It always cracks me right the hell up. I’m an old soul, too; I want to make that absolutely clear, then explain why this is not necessarily an awe-inspiring condition of which anyone should be jealous, or (hardly) anyone should be proud.

Any astrologer worth his or her salt can tell in a glance the age of your soul and how many times you have reincarnated by looking at your natal chart. This is not a number; it’s more of a biography – where you’ve been, and how you spent your time there. They can even tell you why you’re back, and what your life plan made in the Bardo is about.

A child is born on that day and that hour when the celestial rays are in mathematical harmony with his individual karma. His horoscope is a challenging portrait, revealing his unalterable past and its probable future result. But the natal chart can be rightly interpreted only by men of intuitive wisdom: these are few. ~ Swami Sri Yukteswar

The theory of reincarnation encompasses the idea that the soul returns to earth in a new body in order to 1. work out the karma of past lives, and 2. master new lessons needing to be learned. Souls who have balanced their karma and learned their lessons have no need to return. They are released from the “sentence” of having to come back to right their wrongs. So if you’ve been back a lot of times, and you’re not an avatar, what does it mean? It means you haven’t yet done either of these things, in spite of trying repeatedly. It means you’re a slow learner. Makes you want to brag a little less about being an old soul, doesn’t it? Don’t worry about it; we are all exactly where we need to be.

There are a few old souls who return to earth (a sacrifice of love) for the purpose of helping mankind. You've heard of entertaining angels, unaware? Many are disguised as every-day, normal human beings, such as Oskar Schindler. Some are so unexpected that we don't think about it or take it seriously, like John Lennon. Others are clearly spiritual leaders such as Mahatma Ghandi, angels of mercy such as Mother Theresa, or those who elevate our awareness, such as Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Jr., John F. Kennedy, and Princess Diana. There's even that child in the Sudan. Don't think for a second that his life wasn't a sacrifice of love FOR US. The question is - did we hear his message?

How they appear to us depends on the needs of the world, and how well the individual achieves his or her life plan. Anyone can spread the message of love. Anyone can teach compassion for his fellow man. Some are exceptional at it, and get a lot of people to listen. Are we listening? Are we spreading the word? It’s not the age of our souls that’s significant. Those of the Hindu faith believe that we have always existed, and always will. The Law of Conservation of Matter states matter cannot be destroyed, it can only change form. It’s what we do while we’re here that counts.

Jeffrey Wolf Green is probably the greatest living astrologer today (at least I think he’s still among the living; the last I heard, he was very ill with diabetes, and I can't find his website). Jeff served as a Marine in Viet Nam, where he carried on a telepathic conversation with a Buddhist monk, whom he finally met at the end of his tour of duty. Afterwards, he spent two years in a Vedantic temple, where he became aware of his soul’s purpose and life destiny. He told me the contents of his book Pluto: The Evolutionary Journey of the Soul, came to him in a dream.
Jeff specializes in helping others understand their life purpose according to the plans their souls made in the Bardo. He explains in the book how the four natural evolutionary conditions must be taken into account when interpreting a person’s chart. Check them out and see if you can find where you fit in.

Dimly evolved OR de-evolved state: 2 or 3% of the human race fit into this category. An example of this state are those who are mentally challenged from birth – those born with autism, Down’s Syndrome, and similar deficiencies. However, this category is very strictly divided.

Those in the dimly evolved condition are just evolving into human consciousness from other kingdoms (transmigration), most likely the animal kingdom. They are new human souls, and provide lessons in patience, responsibility, compassion, sacrifice, and unconditional love for their caregivers.

Those in the de-evolved state are in this condition due to prior life karmic consequences. These people are often recognizable by the pinpoint of light in their eyes that we perceive as madness. It can be “madness,” as in rage, as well as mental illness. The examples of these eyes are not being shown in currently de-evolved people, because I don't have any photos of them available. I've had to use the eyes of people who will become de-evolved.
In both conditions, the souls are learning how to be in the human world.


The difference is that the de-evolved are aware of their condition and can do nothing about it, thus the rage. They are re-learning how to be in the world without the ability to change or have any influence upon it. They are here to observe only. They can wreak no havoc. And it ticks them off to no end. This is where people like Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, Ted Bundy, and Jeffrey Dahmer end up in their next lives; as de-evolved souls.

The Herd state:
75% of the human race exists in this condition, which is characterized by sheeple. They seldom think for themselves. They question nothing. If their daddies were rednecks, they’re rednecks, too. These are the fans of trash TV, and those who think Saturday morning ‘rasslin’ is real. The people who attend church Sunday morning and turn around and treat the waitress at Sunday brunch like shit. They believe what they’re told to believe, do what they’re told to do, and learn by bad example. Tell them the earth is flat, and they believe it. Tell them astrology is bogus, and they believe it. They follow trends, and jump off bridges, because “everyone else is doing it.” They do not wonder who they are, or what their purpose in life might be. They do not seriously question their lives, laws, rules, the existence of a higher power, the superiority of authority figures, whether or not what the preacher or president told them is the truth, or much of anything else, on an independent basis. Oh, and by God, America is the greatest country in the world. Really? It’s better than say, Canada, Switzerland, or Australia? When was the last time one of those countries started a war? These are the lemmings who go along to get along, or simply don’t think. Those who spend many lifetimes in this state become the leaders of it. There’s a scary thought to ponder. We all know people like this, but we’re not one of them right? Look again at the percentage of the human population who occupy this evolutionary state. Some of us are in it.

The Individuated state:
Approximately 25% of the human race exists in this evolutionary condition. These are people who question just about everything on a consistent basis. They want to understand the reasons behind things, the truth of matters, and why a rule or law has been set down. These are people who drove you nuts as kids by always asking, “why?” Every answer given to them presented a new: “But why?” And in many cases, if their parents were sheeple, the answer eventually became, “I don’t know. That’s just the way it is!” or worse, "Because I said so!" These are people who seek to discover things within themselves. They vibrate with independence. They value self-discovery and the freedom to think and decide what’s right for them. They are perfectly willing to allow others to do the same.

The Spiritual state:
2 or 3% of the human population attempt to understand their own life and those of others in a holistic context. Their desire is to understand the nature of all Creation and commonly link themselves to spiritual ideas or teachings as the guiding principles in life. They attempt to discover and align themselves with timeless and universal values, beliefs and truths that apply at all times. There are actually only two desires in the world: One is to unite with the Source of Creation, and the other is to separate from it. The highest condition of this state produces spiritual masters and teachers: Jesus, Buddha, Lao-Tzu, Mohammed, Moses, and so on. These are the avatars.

It’s natural for a person to slip in and out of a particular state once in a while. A person in the Individuated state may have an experience that lifts them to the Spiritual state for a while, but in time, may slide back. A person in the Herd state may make it to the Individuated state later in his life, and maybe even graduate to the Spiritual state. So if you gave some thought to the state you might be in, and aren’t thrilled about it, don’t despair, just work harder at it. And if you’re a bit too arrogant about the state you believe you’re in, watch your step. You could find yourself sliding backwards if you’re not careful.


  1. Thanks Lesia. Love these posts. Your a good explainer/teacher.

  2. You are an amazing solution to many of my thought questions/problems!
    I think Im in 25% state but much more in mesmerized condition, vibrating in the range. So I might go to the edge. Eitherways.
    Refering to the question of soul, is it really that soul has an age? And that you(astrologer) can tell by looking?
    Sent u a mail. plz look at it.

  3. Wow, more good stuff. This post feels very intuitive to me, perhaps because I've had these thoughts myself, but from a less educated perspective. I believe I fall into the individuated state, but I'm in danger of being sucked back into the herd state. I often struggle not to fall back, and I think I've become stronger as I've grown older and hopefully wiser. I often wonder about the relationship between destiny and free will. It's very complex and I find it difficult to resolve the paradox, but I keep trying.

  4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  5. LOL, CD. I think it's rather more likely you're a good reader / listener. I often get a lot of "What the hell are you talking about?"

    WW, I do some slipping around, too. We all do.

    Saucy (and WW), I can't take credit for any of this. Jeff Green is an amazing astrologer and very wise man. He reminds me a lot of John Lennon in the Wikipedia picture. LOL The rest is ancient wisdom available to anyone who wants to pursue it. I'm just happy to pass it on to anyone who needs it.

  6. Saucy, I removed your address so spiders and bots won't crawl all over it, okay? You don't want a mountain of spam in your box.

  7. Very interesting. I never gave much thought of reincarnation and it could be interesting learning about it considering the genre I write. Not to mention I may explain some things in my own life.

  8. "I" should be it. Not me literally, but I. I think I just confused myself. LOL

  9. Wow.

    I go out of town for a couple of days, and look at all the excitement I miss...

  10. Roxan, I don't know about you, but you certainly confused me for a second. *I* finally got *it.* I thought about you quite a bit while typing all this out. Didn't you write a novel about a candy maker ...? Talk to us. Tell us what you're thinking.

    Little Bird! Did you get to go away for a romantic Valentine's Day weekend? Lucky you! Glad you're back.

  11. Can u elaborate what exactly is said abt the soul of John Lennon?

    And thanks for saving me from spiders and bots

  12. Literary Conference.

    Fun, but tiring. I'm not up to my usual level of... with-it-ness tonight.

    See what I mean?

  13. What about that birthday, Little Bird???? When was it?

  14. It might be coincidence or Nature's way of telling me, but it happened that I heard the name of Lennon for the first time few hrs. before reading here, frm a friend and saw his wiki image. On the same day read it again here.
    Now i get ur point.

    Also heard Schindler's name from another friend w.r.t. that movie. We hav infinite collection of movies and other data on LAN in our college. So its not a deal getting it on my laptop. I will watch it when I return from the lecture today!

  15. Yes, Kickshaw Candies. It became less about the candy maker and more about those who ate the candy.
    What am I thinking? Let's see. I've had things happen in my life that I'm fairly sure have never happened to another human being. Incidents that are unique only to me. And I'm quite sure that others have experienced what was unique only to them. It makes me wonder why I was chosen for my experience out of every other human on earth.
    They say everything happens for a reason and I still wonder the reason for what happened to me.
    A recent talk with my oldest sister made me realize that some of my memories are distorted. My child's mind still sees a clear picture of an incident that did not happen the way I remembered it.
    What I needed protected from my mind has blanked out so I can't say that is the reason my memory is distorted.
    It does make me wonder.

  16. Saucy, those lyrics got messed up, so I deleted that comment, Here are the proper lyrics and comment about John Lennon:

    I don't know what is "said about the soul" of Lennon, Saucy, but are you familiar with his music? His lyrics were filled with messages of love for our fellow man, such as, "All You Need is Love," and those of Revolution:

    We'd all love to see the plan
    You ask me for a contribution
    Well you know
    We're doing what we can
    But when you want money for people with minds that hate
    All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
    Don't you know it's gonna be alright
    Alright Alright

    You say you'll change the constitution
    Well you know
    We all want to change your head
    You tell me it's the institution
    Well you know
    You better free your mind instead
    But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
    You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
    Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
    Alright Alright

    and Imagine

    Imagine there's no Heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today

    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace

    You may say that I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will be as one

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world

    You may say that I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will live as one

    Maybe some other people here will contribute their own favorite Beatles / Lennon lyrics. I just don't have time to search them all out. The point is, Lennon's lyrics and life were filled with messages of love and peace. Being a huge part of the hippie/drug culture for a couple decades, there were, of course, some people who didn't listen seriously to what he was saying, and he seemed like an unlikely candidate for someone who could change our world, but he did have a profound effect on it, which was part of my point. You never know who the avatars are. Angels come disguised in many ways.

    Oskar Schindler is also a good example - he was a womanizer, and a member of the Nazi party - and yet there was another side of him that gave all he had to save the lives of as many Jews as he could. I don't know if you can get the movie Schindler's List in India, but I'm sure you can order it from Amazon, or a similar place. If you've never seen it, you should. It's probably the most profound film I've ever seen, and such a fine example of a soul in the spiritual state.

    Schindler's List is 3 hours and 17 minutes in length, so be sure to set aside enough time to watch it all the way through all at once.

  17. Saucy, you are obviously meant to know about Lennon. Of course, it will be very different from the music you're probably used to. You might also like the music of fellow Beatle, George Harrison, who believed strongly in the Hindu faith. He wrote My Sweet Lord and Here Comes the Sun which was actually a play on words for Here Comes The Son (of God). Gently My Guitar Weeps was a nice song, and I personally love the Beatles In My Life. It's one of my all-time favorites.

  18. Roxan, what genre is your novel? I've always been curious about it because it sounds so original. How few novels are there about candy?

    Whatever your experience was, I'm guessing it wasn't pleasant. I think a lot of our childhood memories are distorted. First, it's a long time to have to go back and remember fine details. Then, we're so vulnerable as children. Maybe we remember the way it made us feel, rather than the way it actually happened, but I don't think that makes it less important. What bothers me is that so many children blame themselves for things that were completely out of their control. Kids have no power whatsoever, and are at the complete mercy of adults, and when those adults abuse that power, they leave scars that follow us the rest of our lives. How do think it has affected the relationship you have with your own children?

    So are you seeing the incident in question in a different light after talking to your sister? Is it better, worse, or no different? Everything does happen for a reason, I'm sure of that. Have you tried asking either the universe, or any other people involved why it happened? Did you get any answers?

    You know, I was surprised to learn our birthdays are so close, because I instantly knew quite a bit about your natal chart - and your life - by receiving that info. I wish you would send me an e-mail. I tried to send you one, but there was something screwy with Yahoo, and I just backed out of it. I might be able to shed some light. ???

  19. Kickshaw Candies is a dark fantasy. It didn't start out that way, but I saw something on tv that shouted to be written.
    My relationship with my children is strong. I am there for them. I give them structure, independence and respect. I treat them as equals. I had none of these as a child and grew up fine. Probably better than I should have.
    The incident is not in a different light, just the memory. It still had the same end result.
    I don't know why you can't email me. I will email you and we'll see what happens.

  20. My email got kicked back. Says it would exceed maximum allowed storage. Once you've cleared some room maybe it will go through.

  21. this was very insightful and helpful. thank you for posting,

  22. Anonymous10:16 PM

    I have to admit I'm a little irritated. My 6 year old son is autistic and he is one of the cleanest souls I know. I absolutely do not agree that he is dimly-evolved or de-evolved. I believe he is learning something this time around. You don't need to have been naughty or be in your first life after animals (though yay for someone who thinks you can reincarnate as animals too!) to be learning something.

  23. Hey Roxan, I e-mailed you; hope you got it (Thanks SJ, for your help in that). I cleaned out my mailbox last night, after Saucy said his mail bounced, so I don't know why it wouldn't go through.

    Dark fantasy? I wouldn't have guessed that!

    I had a similar childhood as yours and chose for that reason not to have kids. Do you think your childhood scars are part of the reason you're such a good mom? Do you sometimes stop and tell yourself you're not going to do to your kids what was done to you? I grew up "fine," too, but I often feel that it happened in spite of my parents, not because of them.

    Hi, Rain. Thanks.

    Hi, Michelle Lee. I'm sure your son is a wonderful child. Most young children are, and I think at that age, the majority of them have clean souls. I can understand how you might be upset if your son was de-evolving, but I don't understand why you would think of a first (or second or third) life as a human would make him something "less." I don't see it that way. God made us all, and loves us all. We're all exactly where we're supposed to be, whether we have incarnated once, or one hundred times. We have no right to judge other people. We don't know their path, or their lessons. I'm not denigrating your son (nor anyone else's), and neither is Jeff Green, who wrote about these evolutionary steps. The book this came from is a textbook for astrologers, meant to help us identify where clients are on their paths. Please stop for a second and ask yourself if you're being a bit defensive; no one here has implied that being a new soul is a bad thing, but you. We're all learning something. That's why we're here. You are also completely entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad you voiced it.

  24. From the beginning I said I would adopted my children out if I ever did to them what my mother did to me. So far, I still have my children. LOL
    I sent a reply to you. Let me know if you got it.

  25. It sounds like you had to endure something pretty bad, Roxan. You have my sympathy and my empathy. So many parents of our generation were bad parents. Maybe you, Corn Dog, SJ, AZ, and I should form a support group - except Corn Dog has closed her blog for a while. She says she's gone off in search of UFO's and Yeti's. I did not get your mail! I sent myself a test mail, and it went through fine. Did you remove the spaces and the smi-colon at the end?

    IS ANYONE ELSE HAVING TROUBLE GETTING MAIL THROUGH TO ME AT THE REDHEARTNOVELS ADDRESS? If anyone is up to it, would you please send me a "test" mail and let me see if I get it, or if I need to do something to get it fixed? Thanks!

  26. I still have a copy of it. I'll resend it to you. I think the fault was mine. It's late and I'm tired.
    I thought Michele Lee's post very interesting. I have a 19 year old autistic daughter. I agree. They are pure souls and perhaps they know what we still have to learn.

  27. Did I mention that Kickshaw Candies is deliciously gruesome?

  28. Anonymous9:32 AM

    I've always thought that each time we pass from this world we come back in order to come to terms with things we couldn't before. As a matter of fact I think that's where my mother is now. If there is a "TOP" place to be then I do believe she is there. I listen to my mother every chance I get. There is never a time that I don't learn something from her adventures in life. She has the soul of an angel, as well as the personality. In my humaness which I am not even sure is a word, I must admit that I am afraid and thankful that she may have completed her journey this time around and maybe someday, once again, I'll be in the arms of an angel

  29. Anonymous6:37 PM

    Oh goodness, if ever you hear me quote that I'm an 'Old Soul' you'll never hear pride nor arrogance in my voice. I'm more than aware that ive been sent back time and time again due to making the same mistake over and over and that is to learn to value myself and find a happy medium between that and the care I give to others unconditionally. I've always put others ahead of me because I know I can take care of myself and what ever happens I'll sort myself back out once I've sorted them out first and I did this time and time again until I stopped the interim of resetting my self worth before moving on to helping the next 'So called person in need' . Without that time to re-evaluate myself caused me to lapse in judgement as I'd given too much of my being that my focus became clouded and I became not only no good to myself but I was no longer any good to anyone else! I would repeat his same pattern over and over, each time believing this time would be different because I'm stronger and can handle it better. Only again and again to have my energies zapped by people I cared enough about to go above and beyond in order to help, to find as soon as I took my eye off them would go right back in head first into whatever it was that had got them in trouble in the first place.

  30. Anonymous6:57 PM

    I have now realised through years of analisation and experience that the best thing you can give a person is their independence. If you try to take their problems away, solve them and hand them back nicely gift wrapped with a smile saying "Here you go it won't trouble you any more" you're only asking for trouble yourself because they'll go right back out and get themselves caught up in something else because you took their conciquences away and never allowed them to learn their own lesson. You're heart might have been in the right place and you done it for all the right reasons but still it was meant for them to learn themselves. It doesn't mean you're being mean, uncaring, callous, unkind or inconsiderate but your best bet is just to be there as and when for guidance. You may have to tell yourself in the beginning that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind in order to stop yourself from feeling guilty but even having to do that subsides as things start to make more sense and fall into place especially when you begin to see the positive outcome that starts to proceed. So this time round I think I'm finally getting it right. I've had a lot of things thrown at me in order for me not to miss the sign but be it good or bad I've tackled them and seen it! Do it shall be interesting what happens next :) but I'm sure our paths will cross at some point so I can fill you in ;) x


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